Monday, July 7, 2008

Me not read Confessions? That's unpossible.

After being asked by some Lutherans (who we thought would know) where the quote on John 6 came from, the ALs met and unanimously agreed to post the source of the quote.

Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Article XXIV, para. 75

To paraphrase LeVar Burton, don't take our word for it. Look it up yourself. And read the context. Actually, read the whole of Article XXIV. While you're at it, start reading the whole book. We know it's thick. Don't panic. The new one from CPH has a handy reading guide. You'll have it read in a year. Then you can stump your pastor. Enjoy.


Jammy said...

Funny thing, those Lutheran Confessions. The whole book is littered with "We believe teach and confess..." and "We reject and condemn..." It's easy for any two groups to come together and say what they agree on, but trying to get them to agree on what is wrong is harder, and much more important.

Huzzah for our Lutheran forefathers!

elephantschild said...

The new one from CPH also has pictures, which you could color if you wanted, and a ribbon bookmark. (Ooooo! Aaaaaaa!)

And it's under $30, the last time I checked.

m00tpoint said...

Ummm ... the Apology does not "teach and confess" that John 6 refers to the Sacrament. It says that Ambrose said this. Ambrose is quoted to prove the ancient fathers believed the Sacrament gives the forgiveness of sins. He's not quoted to prove anything about John 6.


Angry Lutherans said...

Oh no? That would be a sloppy citation on the part of our Lutheran forefathers then. You're certainly free to disagree with me. However, have you read the Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration? In Article VIII, paragraph 59 it says, "So in John 6:48-58 Christ's flesh is a life-giving food. The Council of Ephesus also concluded from this statement that Christ's flesh has power to give life. Many other glorious testimonies of the ancient orthodox Church about this article are cited elsewhere."


Angry Lutherans said...

Sorry, I knew there was another reference I wanted to put in but forgot where it was.

Read the whole of the Apology and you will see this "The Sacrament was instituted to comfort terrified minds. This happens when they believe that Christ's flesh is given as food for the life of the world (John 6:51) and when they believe that, being joined to Christ, they are made alive." Article XXII, paragraph 10


Angry Lutherans said...

Or, how about back in the Solid Declaration?

"There is a twofold eating of Christ's flesh. One is spiritual, which Christ describes especially in John 6:54. This 'eating' happens in no other way than with the Spirit and faith, in preaching and meditation on the Gospel, as well as in the Lord's Supper." Article VII, paragraph 61


Anonymous said...

Mootpoint, the citation. Melanchthon concurs with the judgment of Abrose and says "This passage testifies that in the Sacrament the remission of sins is offered." He doesn't write "The fathers testify..." (which they did, of course, as Philip noted earlier.)

Thus we teach and least in "Our Churches."

The Good Looking One

Anonymous Lutheran said...

I know I'm a little late commenting here, but I am a Lutheran because of John 6. It seems perfectly obvious to me that this is about the Sacrament. I can't think of any reason to deny this other than a fear of appearing "too Catholic."

Angry Lutherans said...

Indeed. Yet, there's a whole four-letter synod hell-bent on convincing all that John 6 is NOT sacramental. Weird, huh?